Skip to content
Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

Main Street Plaza

A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.

Good and bad life-advice from the CoJCoL-dS

chanson, April 29, 2018April 29, 2018

It’s a lazy, sunny Sunday, and since I just got back from a long nature-walk with my family, it’s time for some relaxing fun. Let’s analyze the good and bad advice in this latest doozy from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints: Sister Oaks’s Experience Dating an Apostle (+ 7 Dating Insights).

Right off the bat, I have a problem with the premise (which echoes a harmful message that women receive in LDS culture): a woman’s success is based on her husband’s status. If you’re a woman, there is nothing you can do yourself that comes close to the achievement of being the arm-candy of some really important dude. And BTW, I don’t just mean that this devalues women’s career accomplishments — I mean it also devalues their accomplishments as homemakers:

You can create the most loving, healthy, conducive-to-growth environment possible for your family, but if your husband is a blue-collar worker who never even made Bishop (or worse — he’s a non-member), then Mormons are not going to look up to you and ask your advice like they do successful Mrs. Apostle.

So she starts by quitting her lucrative job that she’s very good at. I’m actually not going to debate that part — it can very well happen that despite being successful at your job, you can get tired of it and want to try something else while you still can. And since she didn’t have debts or dependents, why not? (Though it’s a little odd that she then turned down a dream job at a competing firm.) Kudos to her at least for not saying that it was because she didn’t want to die an old maid.

But this bit kind of jumped out:

This meeting with a General Authority was extremely unusual for me. My exposure to General Authorities had been minimal, and I liked it that way. I had the utmost respect for them. I revered them, but I also understood the line of priesthood jurisdiction and felt confident that my home teachers and my bishop were sufficient to bless my life.

In other words, all of you plebeian ordinary members need to remember that there are layers of hierarchy between you and the really important people. So just because I became successful through my Mormon-royalty connections, don’t try it yourself.

Looking back, I would never have planned to meet an Apostle of the Lord and his daughter dressed so casually.

Um, why not? Oh, right, because they’re more important than everyone else.

On to dating insight #3: “Take Time to Develop a Good Friendship”. This one is actually pretty reasonable, and directly contradicts the terrible advice Mormon young people often get (namely to try to be married within a year of finishing your mission, and any two faithful Mormons can make a marriage work, so just marry the first available person you meet at BYU).

Time is a dear friend also—it mellows us and matures us. My wish for other singles is that they enjoy each and every day of their life.

Yes, Mormon young people — read that bit. Enjoy your life as a single person. Seize the day! Gain life experiences. Don’t sit around fretting about the fact that you aren’t married. And take marriage seriously by not just jumping into it when you’re not ready yet.

Don’t listen to this next bit, though:

Now that I am married, I do not feel that I have graduated to a higher plane. I do know that I feel more complete.

What does that even mean? I’m going to interpret it as “I don’t want to say that getting married is the most important thing a woman can do with her life (because I don’t want to hurt single women’s feelings), but… it is.”

Then comes the most popular pull quote from the article:

When I look back on my single life, my only regrets are that I spent too much time worrying about my future and too little time in the kitchen. I would do anything to be able to make better dinner rolls.

I don’t want to waste too much time on that one since it makes even less sense than the quote above it.

Then she gives a tip in which she has a friend act as a character witness for her — which was made possible by the fact that she’d done good work for her ward in various callings over the years. I’m not sure why she calls that one “Do Your Homework”. I would call it “Enrich your life with interests and experiences that build friendships and make you an interesting person.”

That’s reasonable advice that will help you to lead a full and happy life whether you marry or remain single. It’s certainly better than encouraging single women to spend all their time obsessing about getting married by, say, having them do wedding-dress fashion shows from the age of 12…

Then comes the real winner:

To help facilitate a successful dating relationship, it is usually wise to allow the man to be the initiator, no matter what age you are.

What the…? What does age have to do with it?

Is she saying “No matter how old and desperate you are, don’t try to rush your man.”..? Or is she saying “Even if you have been a fully-independent adult for thirty years, remember that the man is the adult in the relationship.”..?

She goes on to say:

If he makes the effort to contact you, arranges to see you, and takes care of the details, you can be fairly certain that he wants to be with you and has some idea of the basics. In addition, it is an interesting truth that the more self-initiated and independent effort a man puts into building a relationship with a woman, the more he comes to value her.

My issue with this is the gender imbalance. This absolutely goes both ways — or it should. I guess in Mormon-land of course a woman would value her husband, how could she not?

And this next bit is, I think, the worst part:

During my early acquaintance with my husband, I allowed him to make all the phone calls and appointments and contacts because I felt those were his prerogative until I knew him well. That entailed more than a few nail bites as I waited for him to call me. A confident woman does not need constant reassurance.

A confident, self-respecting woman does not sit by the phone, biting her nails waiting for a dude to call her. If she wants to talk to him, she picks up the phone and calls him or texts him herself because she knows that her own time is as valuable as his.

Sister Oaks’s tip here is excellent advice if for some reason you want to be with a man who wants his wife to be a total doormat. If, OTOH, you have a bit of self-respect and you want a husband who sees you as a full-fledged adult human being, I would replace that whole section with an improved section called “Don’t be a doormat.”

It’s disappointing, too, because all of that earlier good stuff about enriching your life with independent interests and friendships is suddenly right out the window if an apostle comes knocking at your door.

I also take issue with her naming that section “Don’t Smother or Pester”. “Don’t smother or pester” would be good advice — if that were actually the topic of the section. But with that title, the section advises women not to call their man at all or make any attempt to contact him. I guess that when a woman calls a man, that’s smothering and pestering (unlike when a man calls a woman)…? This title reinforces the misogynistic belief that there’s nothing more annoying to a man than a woman talking.

The last two bits are par for the course of Mormon dating advice. “Maintain the Lord’s Standards” (a.k.a. don’t have sex) is easy to say if you’re an elderly couple. It’s far more problematic for young people since it’s hard to treat the marriage commitment with the gravity it deserves if it’s placed right where it will be trampled by raging young libidos. And the part about feeling peace when you pray about the relationship — I’m not sure that’s really a good way to pick a spouse. YMMV. It’s nice that they like gardening together though.

And then there’s the eternal Mormon closer: “Anything less will be inadequate eternally.”

Well, I hope you’ll enjoy eternally sharing your husband with Sister Oaks #1…

Advice Marriage

Post navigation

Previous post
Next post

Related Posts

Child Protective Services Are Exposing FLDS Children to Chaos

May 14, 2008February 22, 2024

The Dallas Morning News reports that CPS is unable to properly house a mother with her new born baby: “This woman has been removed from the birthing center with a brand new baby boy and is now sitting in the offices of CPS because they don’t have anywhere else to…

Read More

GAY COUPLE FIND GREAT HAPPINESS AT LAST, DESPITE MORMON BISHOP’S HOMOPHOBIA

January 2, 2013

I am now, and have been for over 11 months to date, very happy and my depression has become almost non-existent.  I have found out for myself, that being gay or homosexual, is not only right for me, but also can be enjoyed, and bring much joy to the lives…

Read More

Judge Walker’s Prop 8 ruling: Evidence shows that a gender restriction on marriage is “nothing more than an artifact of a foregone notion that men and women fulfill different roles in civic life”

August 4, 2010August 5, 2010

This is the first (of six) of Walker’s dismissals of Prop 8 supporters’ claims. The first claim was that “tradition” is enough to maintain marriage as between a man and woman. Walker states that previous court rulings indicate that an “ancient lineage of a classification” does not make a classification…

Read More

Comments (3)

  1. Holly says:
    April 29, 2018 at 9:07 am

    The reason she gives for liking her minimal contact with GA’s was weird to me too.

    I mean, if I have to explain why I like having minimal contact with GA’s, I would say it’s because most of them seem like stuffed shirts.

    But most of us have had minimal contact with elites of all sorts. I’ve had minimal contact with say, rock stars, movies stars, professional athletes, senators, and heads of state.

    It’s not something I have to justify liking or disliking. It’s just how the world works for most people.

  2. Donna Banta says:
    May 1, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    The “do your homework” part felt a bit creepy to me, in part because it referred to Elder Oaks doing the background check on her. Did she do the same on him? Did she realize that this is the guy who once boasted that he divided his cards into judgmental piles every Christmas? I could go on…

    Great post!

  3. Megan says:
    August 20, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    This is the most backward and terrible advice. Ladies, it is OKAY to initiate conversation and push for the things you want in a relationship. You don’t have to put your man on a pedestal as she obviously does; just be friendly and have fun with each other! IF you’re not into a boy, be upfront with him about it, and take action if you feel unsafe or that he will not leave you alone or take no for an answer

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Mormon Alumni Association Books

Latest Comments:

  1. Nfl news on Link bomb #9October 13, 2025

    Comment: What a brilliant title — "Love in the Time of Photoshop" perfectly captures how digital perfection has changed the…

  2. Kenneth on Joseph Smith: The Prophet of the Restoration (review)October 11, 2025

    Yes. It is propaganda in a sense, whitewashes history. But a church's job to promote faith. This piece as just…

  3. Monya Baker on Review of “Filling Empty” by Randy C. WattsOctober 5, 2025

    Thanks for sharing: patience and compassion are such essential virtues!

  4. fapello on LDS vs LGBTQ:  Nathan Kitchen sheds false binariesSeptember 19, 2025

    This powerful account deeply resonated with me. Kitchens vulnerability and courage in navigating his faith, love, and the churchs rigid…

  5. Tent revival: ur doin it rong | MORIAH JOVAN on Mormonism = evangelical megachurch wannabes?July 25, 2025

    […] Hat tip Main Street Plaza. […]

8: The Mormon Proposition Acceptance of Gays Add new tag Affirmation angry exmormon awards Book Reviews BYU comments Conformity Dallin H. Oaks DAMU disaffected mormon underground Dustin Lance Black Ex-Mormon Exclusion policy Excommunicated exmormon faith Family feminism Gay Gay Love Gay Marriage Gay Relationships General Conference Happiness Homosexual Homosexuality LDS LGBT LGBTQ Link Bomb missionaries Modesty Mormon Mormon Alumni Association Mormonism motherhood peace politics Polygamy priesthood ban Sunstone temple

Awards

William Law X-Mormon of the Year:

  • 2023: Adam Steed
  • 2022: David Archuleta
  • 2021: Jeff T. Green
  • 2020: Jacinda Ardern
  • 2019: David Nielsen
  • 2018: Sam Young
  • 2017: Savannah
  • 2016: Jeremy Runnells
  • 2015: John Dehlin
  • 2014: Kate Kelly
  • 2013: J. Seth Anderson and Michael Ferguson
  • 2012: David Tweede
  • 2011: Joanna Brooks
  • 2010: Monica Bielanko
  • 2009: Walter Kirn

Other Cool Sites!

WasMormon.org
©2025 Main Street Plaza | WordPress Theme by SuperbThemes